‘So much of the trauma that our communities have endured, the common thread is nobody cared how they felt’

A Q&A with Joanne Dallaire, Elder and Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation, Toronto Metropolitan University

Joanne Dallaire, Elder and Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation, at Toronto Metropolitan University

Joanne Okimawininew Dallaire (Ke Shay Hayo) is Elder and Senior Advisor, Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation, at Toronto Metropolitan University. She proudly Cree; her ancestry is Omushkego from Attawapiskat. She has dedicated her career to counselling, advising and educating on Indigenous concerns, empowering and capacity-building and advocating for change in terms of broader societal relationships between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Q: Can you explain what it means to be an Elder in Indigenous culture?

A: It means to be someone that other community members look to for guidance and support or knowledge or ceremony. So we play a pivotal role in that strong family, community base. It’s slightly different than the way that North American culture deals with the aged as oftentimes to be kind of shuffled off to care facilities. We try and make space and place, as it's just part of the family and part of the community responsibility.

Q: And what can happen when those two approaches come into contact or conflict with each other, as often happens in Canada?

A: Well, I think one of the things — and I can only speak for myself on this — one of the things that I have noticed that has happened is, when we grow older, we lose abilities, just with the natural ageing process. And with that comes a new sense of vulnerability. Speaking from my own experience, I use a walker or Rollator to get around, and it sat in my dining room for six months, and I swore at it. And I couldn't figure out why I was so angry about this thing that made my mobility so much easier. Is it because it announced something that I've been trying to hide all my life? It was my vulnerability and my sense of being OK.

I think that for Indigenous people, there has been this general belief that something is wrong with us, right from the moment of contact — that who we were and how we did things was not correct. And I think ageing brings about that set of vulnerabilities and a new uncertainty about our capacity.

I was realizing that my confidence gets eroded much quicker. Because when I come into a room, first of all, I'm announcing that I have a disability, therefore I'm vulnerable. I can't just kind of slink into a room and sit at the back and listen quietly. I'm always noticed. And sometimes that pressure of always being noticed is very unwelcome. And it kind of personifies that deeply seated belief within Indigenous persons, that sense that there's something wrong with us.

And we also, in North American culture, insist that no matter how difficult life is, we're fine, we can still get along. “How are you?” “Well, my life's going to hell in a handbasket but I'm OK.” So we have less ability to be able to hide the fact that we're not OK, and that we are more vulnerable and that we are needing more of other people. Like I said, I swore at my walker because it was announced that I was vulnerable, and that I needed special accommodations, special consideration. And you know, “special” is kind of an oxymoron there. It doesn't make you feel special — it makes you feel weird [laughs]. And it makes you feel less than. Even though my logical mind, my intellectual and wise mind, understands that it's not true, my heart place still feels that is true.

And there's a very sterile approach to death and dying in North American culture. Someone dies, they're taken to the funeral home, they're prepared, makeup is done, and then they have visitation. Whereas in Indigenous country, it’s the family that bathes the body, dresses the body, puts the body in the coffin, lights a sacred fire that burns for four days, and usually the person in the coffin is brought to the home, and if not the home then a community place, and the community comes around all the time. So there's a natural kind of transition through the death process. And it's part of rites of passage to grow into being an elder and an age of transitioning. This is not to assume that every Indigenous community operates with traditional practices, but it's still known that we'd handle death and dying differently. It’s a more hands-on approach.

Q: The research we do at the NIA often talks about how some of the challenges that face older adults in general can be more severe or pronounced for people in Indigenous communities. Can you speak a little bit about what some of the reasons for that might be?

A: Well, a lot of the Indigenous communities don't have access to the services that bigger communities have. If you have a concern, you might have to travel a long distance to get to a facility that can help you. There may not be access to mobility aids, like scooters and walkers and Rollators and stuff, because their band may not have the money for that. The Indian Act covers some things, but not everything. And all of this just keeps compounding the fact that we don't have the reins of our destiny. We’re dependent on government to help and that is so contradictory to what Indigenous people are trying to fight for.

But in the community, you're also apt to have more help — like people are more apt to come around and take care of, say, if your grass needs to be mowed, that kind of thing.

Q: Are there different challenges for people living off-reserve or in urban settings?

A: Yes, I think when you're living off-reserve, if you were living on your reserve in the first place, you have that sense of loss of community. Oftentimes, you're coming into the big city or the Big Smoke, which is an entirely different than a small, close-knit community. So the more people that are around you, sometimes the lonelier you feel, because you don't have those kinds of connections.

I think when people come down to the big city because they have to have a specific operation or treatment, they’re once again isolated, because they don't know how many supports are there to help them in that transition. And just the ways of doing things in Indigenous community are different in that you often don't have to ask for what you need — it's offered to you. But in mainstream society, you have to ask for it, which for a lot of people can be very triggering, because people think that because you live on reserve, you must get everything free. No, you don't. If the band doesn't have money for certain things, the band doesn't have money for it. We're still controlled by the government on how our money is even spent and the things that we can do with it. So at every turn, there stands the wall of colonization that is standing in our way of moving freely around, being more comfortable.

Q: Many times, the current generation of older Indigenous people have experienced the residential school system. For people working with older adults, what do they need to keep in mind in those situations?

A: That the person that they're working with is viewing life through a trauma-induced lens. You have to understand that you need to have that kind of fulsome conversation with that person. Like, “Is there anything I should be aware of? I understand that you have history with residential school, how can I help you in the best way navigate your health concerns? What would be triggering for you?” Just going into a hospital can be very triggering; coming in to the university can be very triggering. Day-to-day things that the average folks don't think of can be very triggering. It’s very important that people who work with Indigenous people have sensitivity training, that they understand what the underlying concerns may be. It may be the first time the person's been out of their home community ever. And oftentimes, they're coming down with no support, because there's no money for that, or sometimes with just one support person.

Q: More broadly, when it comes to dealing with Indigenous older adults in the health care and ageing care spaces, are there other things that that people should be aware of?

A: Touching them can be extremely traumatic. So if you're about to touch a person as part of their treatment, or as part of working with them, ask, “Are you okay with me drawing blood now?” Asking for permission and providing an explanation. Because so much of the trauma that our communities have endured, the common thread is nobody cared about how they felt about anything. Nobody cared about the impact on the person on the other end. And I think there has to be a great deal of sensitivity that's brought to anybody who's gone through trauma. Whether it's the Jewish community or it might be the Ukrainian community, if you've lived with physical violence around you, you can be triggered in a nanosecond by a smell, by a sound, by a word. So there really needs to be sensitivity training for people working with people who come from trauma-induced climates.

Q: And what about from a more systemic or policy level? Are there other things that you think the people who are setting policy can do to try and improve the situation?

A: Sure, bring those people in on those committees. Lots of places I go, when I look at things, I think, “I bet you they didn't have one disabled person involved.” It's about them getting off their high horse and not perceiving that because they have intellect, knowledge and research, that they know the actual answers. They need to have people who are going to be using those facilities as part of that decision-making process.

Q: Is there anything else on this topic that you think is important for people to hear about?

A: I think it's important that our society gets more comfortable with the fact of ageing. We don't celebrate ageing in our culture. We don't have milestones that celebrate that you’re into adulthood at 25, when that final piece of the brain kicks in, and how life changes.

We have this false belief in our North American society that knowledge is wisdom. No, knowledge is knowledge. Experience is wisdom. Just because you can research it, just because you can make it, doesn't mean that it’s exactly what's needed by the people that you're trying to make it and provide service for.